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on this episode of skeptic Oh Alex

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continues his conversation with noted

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abduction researcher and tipple

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University of history professor dr.

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David Jacobs

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are you skeptical of all spiritual

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experiences people react to this

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phenomenon in a variety of ways out of

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it it's hard to say you know you've

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asked me a personal question that has

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nothing to do with the abduction

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phenomenon I do why do you think that

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because all I know is when I started

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doing abduction research I really didn't

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know what I was doing and I didn't know

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what I was going to hear and if this

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turned out to be a spiritually

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enlightening phenomenon that would have

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been fine that would that's okay with me

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that's great wonderful I'd like to be

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spiritually enlightened that would be

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terrific but I just never hear this it's

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just not part of this phenomenon stay

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welcome to skeptic Oh where we explore

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controversial science with leading

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researchers thinkers and their critics

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I'm your host Aleksic Harrison on this

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episode part two of my interview with

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alien abduction researcher dr. David

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Jacobs now if you haven't listened to

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part one of this interview you might

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want to go back to the previous episode

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of skeptic oh and give a listen

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especially to the introduction which

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kind of frames up the whole discussion

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of alien abduction and why we should

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even take it seriously in the first

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place and why we might want to look at

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it from this extended consciousness

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perspective which then leads us into

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this divide between those who think that

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alien abductions are some kind of

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spiritually transformative experience or

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are akin to some kind of shamanic

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initiation and those like dr. Jacobs who

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see this as a criminal act an abduction

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in every sense of the word so if you

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have those kind of questions in terms of

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how all this stuff fits in suggest you

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go back to the previous episode if

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you've just stumbled into this interview

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and you don't mind jumping in the middle

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of things then go head-on here's the

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second part of my interview with dr.

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David Jacobs

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there has to be some objective way of

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figuring this stuff out we can't just

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take it on face value that G your way is

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the right way it's this is a difficult

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question to answer because there isn't a

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number of people who've come forward

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with the actual techniques that they use

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I'm writing a book on methodology and

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abduction hypnosis this is the middle

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book that's already basically finished

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and you'll understand exactly how I work

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and what I do and and and and the

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problem of confabulation the problem of

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the first session that you use with the

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person the problem of the second session

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the problem with the third session

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problems with the fourth session they're

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all different

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etc etc let's just take the world word

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trauma which everybody focuses on

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if this is a phenomenon that began in

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infancy and continued with frequency all

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the way through to when the person is 40

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years old and they come to me and

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they've had an abduction let's just say

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the night before and let's just say a

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week before that and a week before that

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their or whatever however many it is the

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question then is how traumatic is this

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phenomenon that has been part-and-parcel

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of their lives since they were children

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and what I found is that yes it is

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traumatic

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but that's trauma oftentimes comes not

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just in it happening otherwise these

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people would be wrecks it comes in

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remembering what happens that trauma

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tends to leave relat well excuse me

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relatively quickly after the second or

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third session and there are ways there

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are psychological ways of putting into

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effect how can I put barriers to to that

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no idea let's put it this way helpful

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suggestions to avoid that and

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consequently the word trauma has become

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a watchdog a watchword for for the

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abduction phenomenon as a whole in fact

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when people come to me for ten sessions

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20 sessions 30 sessions you know over

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the period of months I've been fortunate

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enough to work with people for for years

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and years and years and years they

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understand what's going on they get it

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they they know they know how long it's

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been going on it done stuff from when

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they were children and there

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adolescence and now they're now they're

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sixty years old and then and it's you

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know they become like scientist

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observers in a sense they're reporting

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back they know what is happening now

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they are trying to figure out exactly

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their reasons they're trying to figure

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out they're trying to be more precise in

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their in what they're thinking

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I do things on a logical and

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chronological kind of level so that I'm

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not injecting anything into them and in

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fact I've done experiments with them I

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told them people I say to them you know

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what you just told me about that sounds

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like a dream this really sounds like a

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dream I don't think this happened I

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think this is a dream and then I'll say

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just before I do hypnosis they'll say

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this is a dream it's a direct command

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when I do the induction which is a

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simple relaxation induction and I

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started asking questions they couldn't

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care less about what I just informed on

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not an amount of that this is a dream

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they that doesn't mean anything to them

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at all

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all they know is what happened to them

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and I start chronologically I also know

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that areas of confabulation are all over

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the place and the number one there's two

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number one areas confabulation number

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one description of aliens I don't ask

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people what they look like anymore not

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until later not that I'm interested I am

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interested I will ask certain key

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questions that don't have to have them

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confront the face of an alien but I know

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that they confronted the faces of

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mailing of aliens all their lives but

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when they tell me for example the I

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remember he was wearing a mask or a hood

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over his face so I wouldn't see him and

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because he didn't want me to be

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frightened when I saw him I've heard

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that a whole bunch of times

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it doesn't make any sense to me they've

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seen these beings hundreds of times

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perhaps you mean to say the one thing I

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remembered it is one they had a hood so

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III work around that and eventually I'll

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ask

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the hood and then they realize the

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person isn't wearing her and yet they

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thought he was wearing a hood all these

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years and things like this this regular

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hypnotist cannot do they're not trained

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in this area this is a different area of

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questioning you have to be thoroughly

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knowledgeable in the abduction

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phenomenon to do this and you have to

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understand the role of confabulation the

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other role the other main area

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confabulation is recounting alien

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dialogue the aliens told me bah bah blah

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blah blah blah blah blah

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well yes and no nine times out of ten

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the following event happens all

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communication is telepathic onboard a

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UFO and this is their everybody's used

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to this everybody knows this this is

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what happens that in itself is

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astonishing because if this were

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psychological people would not be saying

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that that he's saying someone's

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telepathic someone that I had to hear

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through their years or whatever you know

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that it would be all over the map but if

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all communication is telepathic then you

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ask them but what do you mean by

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telepathic and they say well I hear it's

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thoughts that that I convert to a word

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so I can understand that or sometimes

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they said I hear syntax I hear actual

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words and all that the question then is

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what's to prevent them from hearing

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their own thoughts and then telling me

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that the aliens told that to them the

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answer is nothing prevents that at all

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they do it all the time it's up to me to

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understand this as confabulation

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this is confabulation a lot of people

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who do this kind of work don't get that

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they don't understand that they have not

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been there's no training period for this

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there's no standardization there's no

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standardization methodology I should say

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what I do is logical and chronological

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that's all you know and I think it's

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fantastic that you're writing a book on

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this and that you're gonna be publicly

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open about your methodology because I'm

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sure a lot of people want to see that I

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think you'd have to realize that you

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know anyone looking in at this from the

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outside would say that's great but why

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does this guy think his methodology is

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so airtight or why is his methodology it

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which hasn't been subjected to that kind

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of scrutiny that we're just talking

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about the only way to go and and let me

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if I can just reintroduce this part

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about the spiritually transformative

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experience because I appreciate where

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you're coming from and that that's not

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your thing fine I'm not so willing to

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accept that

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Janet Kali or Mary rod well in Australia

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who's a nurse and does alien abduction

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work with people and and just kind of

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stumbled into it because people came in

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and okay there's a lot of people out

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there that that experience life trauma

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around these issues and are seeking help

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and it's great that you're out there

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it's great that as many people as

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possible are out there because it lets

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for a minute step back and say what has

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been the usual situation that somebody

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walks in and seeks help or counseling a

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therapist on this and begins to tell

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them that they think they've had this

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experience encounter with another and

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they're said hey you're crazy

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that doesn't happen take these drugs and

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go away so let's put this in context and

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say we at first we at least need

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therapists counselors who are open to

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hearing these people's experiences and

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now we're really kind of hashing out the

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details and the methodology and what we

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get out of that but what I wanted to

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bring back on the table is you know when

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I look at near-death experience science

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like I was talking about

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I really have to separate it and I have

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to separate and say okay what's the hard

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science published work that we have that

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suggests that consciousness survives

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death you know and you just have to look

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at that separate and you say okay that's

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pretty substantial then you look at the

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actual experiences that people have as

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they report these near-death experience

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encounters man let me tell you there

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they are all over the map they're crazy

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they're Jesus Buddha morphing into this

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you know Leppert all this crazy stuff

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the problem with just kind of blowing

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past all that is these are hyper lucid

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most important experiences these people

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had at a time when they didn't have a

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brain so I wonder as I take that kind of

275
00:12:05,200 --> 00:12:02,720
sensibility and I look at the alien

276
00:12:08,380 --> 00:12:05,210
abduction phenomena there's something

277
00:12:11,290 --> 00:12:08,390
that that is appealing I have to say and

278
00:12:13,330 --> 00:12:11,300
also just kind of rings true about some

279
00:12:16,630 --> 00:12:13,340
of the spiritual aspects to that and

280
00:12:18,580 --> 00:12:16,640
there's also a certain bias I guess I

281
00:12:20,650 --> 00:12:18,590
have when I hear you talk some of that I

282
00:12:23,200 --> 00:12:20,660
really buy into I like the hard

283
00:12:25,450 --> 00:12:23,210
methodology just give me the facts try

284
00:12:27,400 --> 00:12:25,460
and ferret out try and no I don't want

285
00:12:30,340 --> 00:12:27,410
to say deceive people but try and you

286
00:12:32,770 --> 00:12:30,350
know trick people into not tricking

287
00:12:35,140 --> 00:12:32,780
themselves kind of thing but I also say

288
00:12:39,910 --> 00:12:35,150
wow is that somehow shaping the

289
00:12:43,120 --> 00:12:39,920
experience into something that we we is

290
00:12:46,510 --> 00:12:43,130
more digestible for us and easier for us

291
00:12:48,670 --> 00:12:46,520
to understand when in fact we can't

292
00:12:50,260 --> 00:12:48,680
really get all the way there and trying

293
00:12:52,840 --> 00:12:50,270
to bringing it and trying to bring it

294
00:12:56,680 --> 00:12:52,850
down to our reality any thoughts

295
00:13:01,120 --> 00:12:56,690
well you know let me answer that in this

296
00:13:03,310 --> 00:13:01,130
way when I was young and dumb and I

297
00:13:05,200 --> 00:13:03,320
started doing this research and I

298
00:13:08,980 --> 00:13:05,210
started accepting everything that people

299
00:13:12,850 --> 00:13:08,990
told me I fell into traps I believed

300
00:13:16,150 --> 00:13:12,860
what was not true and I learned it was

301
00:13:20,590 --> 00:13:16,160
not true later on and from the same

302
00:13:21,220 --> 00:13:20,600
person and I had and I had believed it

303
00:13:25,690 --> 00:13:21,230
to be true

304
00:13:27,130 --> 00:13:25,700
and once once I realized that people say

305
00:13:28,660 --> 00:13:27,140
things that are not true in the

306
00:13:29,800 --> 00:13:28,670
abduction phenomenon I'm not talking

307
00:13:33,100 --> 00:13:29,810
about you know and your death

308
00:13:36,310 --> 00:13:33,110
experiences and as you know near-death

309
00:13:37,840 --> 00:13:36,320
experiences have their own problems in

310
00:13:39,750 --> 00:13:37,850
that that they are near-death and you

311
00:13:42,460 --> 00:13:39,760
don't know when the person had the

312
00:13:44,290 --> 00:13:42,470
experience after death or just

313
00:13:46,360 --> 00:13:44,300
near-death man and that's that's just

314
00:13:47,680 --> 00:13:46,370
that's just not true but that's okay

315
00:13:49,420 --> 00:13:47,690
because you don't know about it let the

316
00:13:51,660 --> 00:13:49,430
reason I don't know about it I certainly

317
00:13:52,970 --> 00:13:51,670
don't know whether that's the case and

318
00:13:54,889 --> 00:13:52,980
but but

319
00:13:56,420 --> 00:13:54,899
but the fact is though that because let

320
00:13:59,600 --> 00:13:56,430
me just interject to get it in the

321
00:14:02,329 --> 00:13:59,610
broadcast the reason that I say that's

322
00:14:04,819 --> 00:14:02,339
not true is in the same way that alien

323
00:14:09,110 --> 00:14:04,829
abduction and that's the famous white

324
00:14:12,769 --> 00:14:09,120
Swan thing it doesn't matter if you have

325
00:14:17,569 --> 00:14:12,779
some kind of wild really medically

326
00:14:20,329 --> 00:14:17,579
unsound explanation for 95% of

327
00:14:23,269 --> 00:14:20,339
near-death experiences you have enough

328
00:14:26,030 --> 00:14:23,279
that are clearly there's no brain

329
00:14:28,910 --> 00:14:26,040
activity and yet there's a hyper lucid

330
00:14:32,660 --> 00:14:28,920
hyper hyper real experience and all you

331
00:14:34,970 --> 00:14:32,670
need is one to prove that this idea that

332
00:14:37,160 --> 00:14:34,980
consciousness is purely biological and

333
00:14:39,139 --> 00:14:37,170
ends at physical death has been

334
00:14:43,430 --> 00:14:39,149
falsified so that's where I was coming

335
00:14:46,040 --> 00:14:43,440
but please continue okay the fact is so

336
00:14:48,350 --> 00:14:46,050
that let me get back to my main stream

337
00:14:50,509 --> 00:14:48,360
of thought it's not that I was tricked

338
00:14:53,300 --> 00:14:50,519
people said things that were not true to

339
00:14:55,280 --> 00:14:53,310
me and I believed that and when I

340
00:14:58,220 --> 00:14:55,290
realized that this had not actually

341
00:15:01,280 --> 00:14:58,230
happened as the person later on in doing

342
00:15:04,879 --> 00:15:01,290
the same event again told me I realized

343
00:15:07,670 --> 00:15:04,889
that I was an idiot I was accepting

344
00:15:09,590 --> 00:15:07,680
things as fact that were not fact I have

345
00:15:14,689 --> 00:15:09,600
to put in a set of controls into my

346
00:15:17,420 --> 00:15:14,699
methodology to try to ensure try to to

347
00:15:19,490 --> 00:15:17,430
prevent this as much as possible I'm not

348
00:15:20,870 --> 00:15:19,500
interested in in hearing the inner

349
00:15:22,850 --> 00:15:20,880
workings of a person's mind I'm

350
00:15:27,110 --> 00:15:22,860
interested in finding out what is going

351
00:15:28,400 --> 00:15:27,120
on in the abduction phenomenon and I am

352
00:15:29,809 --> 00:15:28,410
obviously interested in hearing the

353
00:15:30,620 --> 00:15:29,819
inner workings of Chris mind as long as

354
00:15:33,889 --> 00:15:30,630
it relates to it

355
00:15:36,319 --> 00:15:33,899
but the problem here is that their minds

356
00:15:39,860 --> 00:15:36,329
are altered they're not thinking

357
00:15:42,879 --> 00:15:39,870
properly and their reactions on board

358
00:15:46,120 --> 00:15:42,889
the object are themselves blunted

359
00:15:49,699 --> 00:15:46,130
there's there's not a normal sense of

360
00:15:51,530 --> 00:15:49,709
the world so to speak it's going on I've

361
00:15:54,230 --> 00:15:51,540
told this example many times and I'll

362
00:15:57,410 --> 00:15:54,240
tell it again because it's so stark a

363
00:15:59,949 --> 00:15:57,420
woman this is a nighttime abduction and

364
00:16:02,389 --> 00:15:59,959
the majority of abduction cases about

365
00:16:04,550 --> 00:16:02,399
abduction events which is I don't know

366
00:16:07,280 --> 00:16:04,560
it I guess it's 1,100

367
00:16:08,750 --> 00:16:07,290
that I've done take place during when a

368
00:16:10,040 --> 00:16:08,760
person's not asleep or during the day

369
00:16:12,650 --> 00:16:10,050
and that sort of stuff so I don't want

370
00:16:17,450 --> 00:16:12,660
to bring in sleep paralysis into this

371
00:16:19,880 --> 00:16:17,460
argument but the the point is that she

372
00:16:21,950 --> 00:16:19,890
woke up one night and there was Abraham

373
00:16:25,340 --> 00:16:21,960
Lincoln standing at the end of her bed

374
00:16:28,070 --> 00:16:25,350
and he was Abraham Lincoln he had a

375
00:16:30,890 --> 00:16:28,080
beard and he had a stovepipe hat and all

376
00:16:32,930 --> 00:16:30,900
the rest that stuff and she gets out of

377
00:16:35,450 --> 00:16:32,940
bed and she Abraham Lincoln takes you up

378
00:16:37,400 --> 00:16:35,460
to this UFO and then they going through

379
00:16:40,460 --> 00:16:37,410
him take her clothes off and they were

380
00:16:42,200 --> 00:16:40,470
have Lincoln starts to walk ahead and

381
00:16:47,470 --> 00:16:42,210
walk with her down a hallway

382
00:16:49,250 --> 00:16:47,480
I said well your escort Lincoln you know

383
00:16:51,650 --> 00:16:49,260
when you're walking down this hallway

384
00:16:53,510 --> 00:16:51,660
where is he is he in front of you is he

385
00:16:54,579 --> 00:16:53,520
on this audio is he behind you now that

386
00:16:57,110 --> 00:16:54,589
might sound like a leading question

387
00:16:59,000 --> 00:16:57,120
because I didn't say is he on top of you

388
00:17:01,700 --> 00:16:59,010
or on the bottom of you but that's a

389
00:17:04,850 --> 00:17:01,710
nonsensical question so he's got to be

390
00:17:09,620 --> 00:17:04,860
somewhere so he so she said now he's in

391
00:17:11,030 --> 00:17:09,630
front of me I said well when you look at

392
00:17:12,230 --> 00:17:11,040
him he looking down at him are you

393
00:17:13,939 --> 00:17:12,240
looking sure to cross it here am I

394
00:17:17,480 --> 00:17:13,949
looking up at him oh I'm sure looking

395
00:17:20,329 --> 00:17:17,490
down a little bit okay or maybe she said

396
00:17:22,610 --> 00:17:20,339
straight across whatever I said can you

397
00:17:25,069 --> 00:17:22,620
see his stovepipe hat and then she

398
00:17:27,110 --> 00:17:25,079
looked and she said no I don't see his

399
00:17:29,150 --> 00:17:27,120
stovepipe hat that's a perfectly logical

400
00:17:31,340 --> 00:17:29,160
questions to ask we can go because

401
00:17:33,410 --> 00:17:31,350
that's what she told me I said well can

402
00:17:37,910 --> 00:17:33,420
you see his hair the back of his head is

403
00:17:39,770 --> 00:17:37,920
hair she said no I don't think it's I

404
00:17:41,600 --> 00:17:39,780
don't see any hair in the back of his

405
00:17:44,240 --> 00:17:41,610
head and then she said I don't think

406
00:17:47,180 --> 00:17:44,250
this is Lincoln that's confabulation and

407
00:17:49,160 --> 00:17:47,190
that's logic put together I'm not asking

408
00:17:52,100 --> 00:17:49,170
I'm just asking her to describe Lincoln

409
00:17:55,010 --> 00:17:52,110
that's what it boils down to right and

410
00:17:57,050 --> 00:17:55,020
she is volunteering it's not Lincoln she

411
00:18:00,560 --> 00:17:57,060
thought it was but it wasn't

412
00:18:03,410 --> 00:18:00,570
that's confabulation that simple little

413
00:18:07,570 --> 00:18:03,420
this simple little thing you'd be amazed

414
00:18:12,200 --> 00:18:07,580
how many hypnotists out there can't do

415
00:18:13,910 --> 00:18:12,210
it's it's amazing to me yeah yeah what's

416
00:18:16,400 --> 00:18:13,920
coming back to me from some of the

417
00:18:18,500 --> 00:18:16,410
extended consciousness work is good you

418
00:18:20,150 --> 00:18:18,510
you you you bifurcate it you say first

419
00:18:22,220 --> 00:18:20,160
established the phenomena established

420
00:18:27,110 --> 00:18:22,230
that you know Rick Strassman

421
00:18:29,659 --> 00:18:27,120
established that DMT really not only

422
00:18:32,360 --> 00:18:29,669
creates these hallucinogenic experiences

423
00:18:33,919 --> 00:18:32,370
but put people into another realm where

424
00:18:36,980 --> 00:18:33,929
they're interacting with freestanding

425
00:18:39,169 --> 00:18:36,990
beings hey or David Nutt I think it's

426
00:18:42,610 --> 00:18:39,179
dr. David Nutt in England recently

427
00:18:46,700 --> 00:18:42,620
published experiments with psilocybin

428
00:18:49,700 --> 00:18:46,710
contrary to what everyone was expecting

429
00:18:51,440 --> 00:18:49,710
that if you do an fMRI on somebody's

430
00:18:53,450 --> 00:18:51,450
brain while they're tripping on

431
00:18:55,400 --> 00:18:53,460
psilocybin hey they're having these

432
00:18:57,350 --> 00:18:55,410
Lucinda genic experiences their brain

433
00:19:00,289 --> 00:18:57,360
must just be firing all over the place

434
00:19:03,500 --> 00:19:00,299
just the opposite shows up there's a

435
00:19:05,659 --> 00:19:03,510
suppression of firing again fits into

436
00:19:08,510 --> 00:19:05,669
this overall idea that consciousness is

437
00:19:11,180 --> 00:19:08,520
somehow outside of the brain and

438
00:19:12,950 --> 00:19:11,190
interacting with the brain once you get

439
00:19:14,590 --> 00:19:12,960
there though in the same way that you're

440
00:19:18,260 --> 00:19:14,600
talking about you know kind of

441
00:19:20,690 --> 00:19:18,270
presupposing or imposing somebody's will

442
00:19:24,640 --> 00:19:20,700
on it you understand that consciousness

443
00:19:28,820 --> 00:19:24,650
then becomes this very funny strange

444
00:19:32,150 --> 00:19:28,830
thing outside of the human brain and we

445
00:19:34,430 --> 00:19:32,160
might not be able to pin it down

446
00:19:36,260 --> 00:19:34,440
in every sense although we have to try

447
00:19:38,900 --> 00:19:36,270
because it's the best consensus reality

448
00:19:42,380 --> 00:19:38,910
technique we have but we might not be

449
00:19:45,080 --> 00:19:42,390
able to pin it down to this hard and

450
00:19:47,990 --> 00:19:45,090
fast reality so that's the that's what I

451
00:19:49,640 --> 00:19:48,000
keep pushing up against when you're

452
00:19:51,200 --> 00:19:49,650
telling me this I can I don't know

453
00:19:54,490 --> 00:19:51,210
whether it's real or not I guess one of

454
00:19:58,100 --> 00:19:54,500
the questions I have is put on your

455
00:20:01,700 --> 00:19:58,110
researcher hat your academic hat how

456
00:20:05,090 --> 00:20:01,710
would we maybe devise some simple

457
00:20:08,710 --> 00:20:05,100
experiments to test this let's say we

458
00:20:11,630 --> 00:20:08,720
had a willing abductee it was willing to

459
00:20:12,980 --> 00:20:11,640
publicly subject themselves maybe they

460
00:20:15,080 --> 00:20:12,990
keep their identity and they do it in

461
00:20:17,980 --> 00:20:15,090
shadow or whatever but they're publicly

462
00:20:21,200 --> 00:20:17,990
willing to subject themselves to

463
00:20:23,690 --> 00:20:21,210
hypnotic regression using your

464
00:20:26,289 --> 00:20:23,700
techniques either by you or by someone

465
00:20:29,630 --> 00:20:26,299
that you kind of tell how to do it

466
00:20:32,330 --> 00:20:29,640
versus comparing it publicly with

467
00:20:35,590 --> 00:20:32,340
somebody else's techniques would

468
00:20:39,080 --> 00:20:35,600
move us any closer to understanding

469
00:20:41,630 --> 00:20:39,090
what's going on and would you be willing

470
00:20:43,460 --> 00:20:41,640
to kind of somehow or other I don't even

471
00:20:46,940 --> 00:20:43,470
haven't just making this up somehow or

472
00:20:49,880 --> 00:20:46,950
another participate in helping helping

473
00:20:55,810 --> 00:20:49,890
that happen if I was to set it up well I

474
00:20:59,299 --> 00:20:55,820
I don't know I then you would imagine

475
00:21:01,250 --> 00:20:59,309
first of all if you set up somebody

476
00:21:04,010 --> 00:21:01,260
who's heavily into New Age the New Age

477
00:21:06,740 --> 00:21:04,020
world for example and it's going to be

478
00:21:09,620 --> 00:21:06,750
asking and it's going to seizing upon

479
00:21:12,260 --> 00:21:09,630
any kind of modicum of what they

480
00:21:14,450 --> 00:21:12,270
consider to be spirituality and in the

481
00:21:17,600 --> 00:21:14,460
phenomenon and a person who does it

482
00:21:20,440 --> 00:21:17,610
correctly that is to say just asked

483
00:21:22,850 --> 00:21:20,450
logically and chronologically then

484
00:21:25,490 --> 00:21:22,860
you're gonna get you're gonna get two

485
00:21:27,470 --> 00:21:25,500
different types of accounts but the

486
00:21:28,669 --> 00:21:27,480
question is what is what is an accurate

487
00:21:29,120 --> 00:21:28,679
account that what's not an accurate

488
00:21:30,320 --> 00:21:29,130
account

489
00:21:32,510 --> 00:21:30,330
yeah it doesn't that all come out in the

490
00:21:34,850 --> 00:21:32,520
wash I mean if someone is no it doesn't

491
00:21:36,710 --> 00:21:34,860
well but but if it's public if it's

492
00:21:38,149 --> 00:21:36,720
public and someone hears and says you

493
00:21:39,860 --> 00:21:38,159
know what someone can say oh wow they're

494
00:21:41,870 --> 00:21:39,870
you're trying to interpret that as

495
00:21:43,340 --> 00:21:41,880
somebody saw Jesus and they should have

496
00:21:45,289 --> 00:21:43,350
asked this in this and this I mean in

497
00:21:49,070 --> 00:21:45,299
that sense it comes out in the wash

498
00:21:50,779 --> 00:21:49,080
because the the the whole thing is video

499
00:21:52,730 --> 00:21:50,789
recorded and are transcribed and someone

500
00:21:54,649 --> 00:21:52,740
can say that's the mistake here's what

501
00:21:57,320 --> 00:21:54,659
you should have asked well I suppose

502
00:21:59,539 --> 00:21:57,330
something like that might be helpful I'd

503
00:22:02,500 --> 00:21:59,549
have to think about doing doing

504
00:22:05,419 --> 00:22:02,510
something like that the thing is is that

505
00:22:06,830 --> 00:22:05,429
when you do this kind of research I'm

506
00:22:09,169 --> 00:22:06,840
gonna I'll tell two things if I can

507
00:22:11,269 --> 00:22:09,179
remember the two things number one a

508
00:22:15,789 --> 00:22:11,279
person a person that was heavily into

509
00:22:19,190 --> 00:22:15,799
the new age and and number two the

510
00:22:23,240 --> 00:22:19,200
controls let me do number one first I

511
00:22:25,250 --> 00:22:23,250
once had a person who was extremely new

512
00:22:26,690 --> 00:22:25,260
agey and then she traveled on the astral

513
00:22:29,789 --> 00:22:26,700
plane and she'd done this and she'd done

514
00:22:36,610 --> 00:22:34,600
her she talked to a new-age sort of

515
00:22:38,980 --> 00:22:36,620
lingo that was very difficult maybe even

516
00:22:41,230 --> 00:22:38,990
understand I must say but she was

517
00:22:43,090 --> 00:22:41,240
abducted a couple of times and had I

518
00:22:46,720 --> 00:22:43,100
mean that she remember no we did the two

519
00:22:48,220 --> 00:22:46,730
sessions and one time well both sessions

520
00:22:50,380 --> 00:22:48,230
to happen in New York City I guess it

521
00:22:52,299 --> 00:22:50,390
was and I just remember this that this

522
00:22:54,490 --> 00:22:52,309
that was all pretty standard stuff and

523
00:22:57,160 --> 00:22:54,500
we just went from A to B A to C to D and

524
00:22:59,680 --> 00:22:57,170
all the way through to the end and then

525
00:23:01,060 --> 00:22:59,690
she wrote me a letter and saying she was

526
00:23:03,310 --> 00:23:01,070
never going to come and see me again

527
00:23:06,520 --> 00:23:03,320
because she didn't remember what she

528
00:23:07,750 --> 00:23:06,530
wanted to remember and how spiritually

529
00:23:09,549 --> 00:23:07,760
uplifting this was and

530
00:23:11,860 --> 00:23:09,559
consciousness-raising and all the rest

531
00:23:13,419 --> 00:23:11,870
that stuff and she and and that's that's

532
00:23:15,299 --> 00:23:13,429
not what she remembered and it was my

533
00:23:18,070 --> 00:23:15,309
fault because I was leading her

534
00:23:21,070 --> 00:23:18,080
chronologic uni chronologically through

535
00:23:22,539 --> 00:23:21,080
her event and asking a list logical

536
00:23:26,440 --> 00:23:22,549
questions based on what she was telling

537
00:23:30,010 --> 00:23:26,450
me and I read sure that letter because

538
00:23:31,659 --> 00:23:30,020
it shows how how this phenomenon can

539
00:23:34,659 --> 00:23:31,669
become embedded in a person's

540
00:23:37,980 --> 00:23:34,669
consciousness or unconsciousness I

541
00:23:42,220 --> 00:23:37,990
should say and and and they've built a

542
00:23:44,440 --> 00:23:42,230
core sort of a way of understanding it

543
00:23:47,799 --> 00:23:44,450
that comforts them and allows them to

544
00:23:50,020 --> 00:23:47,809
cope with it and what I had done was I

545
00:23:53,850 --> 00:23:50,030
had not tapped into that coping

546
00:23:57,580 --> 00:23:53,860
mechanism and reinforced it for her and

547
00:23:59,140 --> 00:23:57,590
and so she she never came again but it

548
00:24:01,720 --> 00:23:59,150
showed me that I was on the right track

549
00:24:05,320 --> 00:24:01,730
that I was doing something right

550
00:24:09,430 --> 00:24:05,330
now here's what here's the controls my

551
00:24:11,740 --> 00:24:09,440
my world has devolved into listening to

552
00:24:14,320 --> 00:24:11,750
abductees talk about their abduction

553
00:24:18,100 --> 00:24:14,330
experiences over and over and over again

554
00:24:20,080 --> 00:24:18,110
and I've heard many many many people and

555
00:24:22,570 --> 00:24:20,090
I and they all say the same thing and

556
00:24:24,070 --> 00:24:22,580
it's in certain detail you know and I

557
00:24:26,740 --> 00:24:24,080
start at the beginning where were they

558
00:24:29,110 --> 00:24:26,750
when this happened and how did they get

559
00:24:31,600 --> 00:24:29,120
inside this object and whether they were

560
00:24:33,010 --> 00:24:31,610
alone or not when they did it and what's

561
00:24:35,740 --> 00:24:33,020
the first thing they see when they get

562
00:24:38,140 --> 00:24:35,750
inside and is it bright or is it dark or

563
00:24:39,419 --> 00:24:38,150
is it Jim and what is the size of the

564
00:24:41,519 --> 00:24:39,429
area that they're in

565
00:24:43,079 --> 00:24:41,529
and other wearing their clothes are they

566
00:24:44,909 --> 00:24:43,089
nothing if they're not they skip the

567
00:24:46,349 --> 00:24:44,919
portion where they took their clothes

568
00:24:49,499 --> 00:24:46,359
off my so we'll see if we can go back

569
00:24:51,060 --> 00:24:49,509
there and and and what happens next and

570
00:24:53,039 --> 00:24:51,070
then they go down a Holloway and then

571
00:24:54,419 --> 00:24:53,049
and they go into a room or whatever it

572
00:24:56,070 --> 00:24:54,429
is and then what happens and then

573
00:24:58,409 --> 00:24:56,080
there's tables and then oh yeah you know

574
00:25:00,719 --> 00:24:58,419
and I I can only talk about what they

575
00:25:04,529 --> 00:25:00,729
say and then ask more questions later on

576
00:25:06,180 --> 00:25:04,539
so every once in a while somebody will

577
00:25:10,169 --> 00:25:06,190
tell me something I never heard before

578
00:25:14,989 --> 00:25:10,179
now that's rare in this day and age that

579
00:25:17,219 --> 00:25:14,999
it's rare I have to say it is rare and

580
00:25:18,869 --> 00:25:17,229
but when they tell me something I've

581
00:25:21,690 --> 00:25:18,879
never heard before that's not evidence

582
00:25:24,149 --> 00:25:21,700
that goes on the back burner I'm gonna

583
00:25:25,709 --> 00:25:24,159
wait to see if anybody else ever tells

584
00:25:28,259 --> 00:25:25,719
me something like that or close to it

585
00:25:31,109 --> 00:25:28,269
that I've never heard before if nobody

586
00:25:34,169 --> 00:25:31,119
ever does it's not evidence it still

587
00:25:35,909 --> 00:25:34,179
stays there if other people begin to say

588
00:25:38,249 --> 00:25:35,919
the same thing and are not aware of this

589
00:25:40,499 --> 00:25:38,259
testimony it becomes in my world

590
00:25:41,820 --> 00:25:40,509
evidence this becomes now suddenly

591
00:25:43,589 --> 00:25:41,830
something important to more people to

592
00:25:47,310 --> 00:25:43,599
say it the better then I know I'm on the

593
00:25:49,379 --> 00:25:47,320
right track at the same time I will ask

594
00:25:50,729 --> 00:25:49,389
purposely misleading questions to see if

595
00:25:52,469 --> 00:25:50,739
these people will be led this is

596
00:25:55,019 --> 00:25:52,479
especially true for the first and second

597
00:25:58,139 --> 00:25:55,029
sessions to see whether they'll go

598
00:26:00,149 --> 00:25:58,149
they'll take the bite I will say I will

599
00:26:01,680 --> 00:26:00,159
I will do well I'm not gonna go into all

600
00:26:06,899 --> 00:26:01,690
the tricks of the trade but I will do

601
00:26:09,959 --> 00:26:06,909
other procedures that try to lay them

602
00:26:12,239 --> 00:26:09,969
off the track try to get them to to obey

603
00:26:17,219 --> 00:26:12,249
what I am saying as opposed to what

604
00:26:18,869 --> 00:26:17,229
they're actually saying and 99.9999% of

605
00:26:23,729 --> 00:26:18,879
the time they say their word that I'm

606
00:26:26,219 --> 00:26:23,739
looking for no wasn't like that but how

607
00:26:27,930 --> 00:26:26,229
can she used to ask a question you know

608
00:26:31,229 --> 00:26:27,940
every time there's an abduction people

609
00:26:34,289 --> 00:26:31,239
see a yellow alien who stands on the

610
00:26:37,200 --> 00:26:34,299
side of the room watching he would say

611
00:26:39,930 --> 00:26:37,210
you can see this yellow alien can't you

612
00:26:42,029 --> 00:26:39,940
I think I heard you mention a parquet

613
00:26:43,680 --> 00:26:42,039
floor as something that was another one

614
00:26:45,180 --> 00:26:43,690
that I use fast right and I had one

615
00:26:46,490 --> 00:26:45,190
person who said yes to that it was the

616
00:26:49,670 --> 00:26:46,500
only time I ever

617
00:26:52,100 --> 00:26:49,680
that but but the answer for for him is

618
00:26:52,970 --> 00:26:52,110
no there's no weenie yellow alien what

619
00:26:55,970 --> 00:26:52,980
huh

620
00:26:58,460 --> 00:26:55,980
in other words you have to do that and

621
00:27:00,980 --> 00:26:58,470
and good therapists come it's very good

622
00:27:03,710 --> 00:27:00,990
hidden hypnotherapist good hypnotist

623
00:27:06,080 --> 00:27:03,720
good researchers will do that just to to

624
00:27:08,330 --> 00:27:06,090
to to try to make sure that that the

625
00:27:10,460 --> 00:27:08,340
anecdotal evidence they're getting and

626
00:27:12,140 --> 00:27:10,470
this is anecdotal evidence we got over

627
00:27:13,670 --> 00:27:12,150
her from her you know just like all the

628
00:27:15,350 --> 00:27:13,680
other types of evidence that the

629
00:27:18,140 --> 00:27:15,360
anecdotal evidence are getting is as

630
00:27:20,780 --> 00:27:18,150
solid as it can be it's still the basis

631
00:27:22,880 --> 00:27:20,790
of our criminal judicial system to a

632
00:27:25,250 --> 00:27:22,890
large extent so you know one thing that

633
00:27:26,690 --> 00:27:25,260
strikes me dr. Jacobs is for all this

634
00:27:29,060 --> 00:27:26,700
kind of hashing around we've done you

635
00:27:31,730 --> 00:27:29,070
know the protocol is not that that

636
00:27:34,580 --> 00:27:31,740
complicated so when we talk no it's not

637
00:27:36,530 --> 00:27:34,590
it's common sense okay because one

638
00:27:39,800 --> 00:27:36,540
person I spoke with before I spoke with

639
00:27:44,230 --> 00:27:39,810
you is Mary Rodwell who's actually

640
00:27:47,380 --> 00:27:44,240
published some very public regression

641
00:27:50,780 --> 00:27:47,390
therapy work that she's done with

642
00:27:52,850 --> 00:27:50,790
abductees and all that and then as I

643
00:27:53,840 --> 00:27:52,860
mentioned I also spoke with Janet collie

644
00:27:55,580 --> 00:27:53,850
although I don't know that she's

645
00:27:57,650 --> 00:27:55,590
published anything here's my thing I

646
00:28:00,050 --> 00:27:57,660
like getting to the bottom of things if

647
00:28:01,730 --> 00:28:00,060
possible just for no other reason than

648
00:28:03,920 --> 00:28:01,740
no one else is doing it there's this

649
00:28:07,610 --> 00:28:03,930
vacuum here no one is approaching this

650
00:28:09,500 --> 00:28:07,620
if it seems straightforward to me that

651
00:28:12,200 --> 00:28:09,510
if someone will still listen to this

652
00:28:14,360 --> 00:28:12,210
interview and basically understand the

653
00:28:16,310 --> 00:28:14,370
protocol and put down the protocol and

654
00:28:18,020 --> 00:28:16,320
say okay here's basically out of what I

655
00:28:19,640 --> 00:28:18,030
understand the protocol to be we have to

656
00:28:20,840 --> 00:28:19,650
go through in chronological order when

657
00:28:24,830 --> 00:28:20,850
there's gaps we have to fill those gaps

658
00:28:28,910 --> 00:28:24,840
we have to not steer away from meaning

659
00:28:32,630 --> 00:28:28,920
and steer towards concrete data you know

660
00:28:34,340 --> 00:28:32,640
then if they did such a session got the

661
00:28:37,100 --> 00:28:34,350
person in advance to the questionnaire

662
00:28:38,780 --> 00:28:37,110
so we know it's not someone who has it's

663
00:28:41,800 --> 00:28:38,790
a person that we would normally kind of

664
00:28:44,630 --> 00:28:41,810
engage with in this kind of thing I

665
00:28:48,170 --> 00:28:44,640
would think we'd be able to pretty

666
00:28:51,800 --> 00:28:48,180
quickly see if what you're saying bears

667
00:28:54,170 --> 00:28:51,810
out or see if spontaneously they're

668
00:28:56,450 --> 00:28:54,180
talking about some kind of spiritual

669
00:28:58,040 --> 00:28:56,460
experience like some of these other

670
00:28:59,780 --> 00:28:58,050
researchers are talking about shouldn't

671
00:29:03,080 --> 00:28:59,790
that be pretty easy

672
00:29:05,030 --> 00:29:03,090
one would assume that if they follow the

673
00:29:07,370 --> 00:29:05,040
protocols that I follow that they would

674
00:29:08,690 --> 00:29:07,380
not come up with anything spiritual they

675
00:29:10,610 --> 00:29:08,700
would come up with something that has

676
00:29:13,640 --> 00:29:10,620
nothing to do with humans and has

677
00:29:16,040 --> 00:29:13,650
everything to do with aliens and one

678
00:29:18,920 --> 00:29:16,050
final question as we wrap this up I keep

679
00:29:20,810 --> 00:29:18,930
getting the sense are you well which are

680
00:29:22,400 --> 00:29:20,820
you skeptical of all spiritual

681
00:29:24,680 --> 00:29:22,410
experiences do you think there's any

682
00:29:26,780 --> 00:29:24,690
legitimacy to people who claim to have

683
00:29:29,540 --> 00:29:26,790
spiritual experiences but it be they

684
00:29:33,590 --> 00:29:29,550
alien adduced yeah people react to this

685
00:29:36,140 --> 00:29:33,600
phenomenon in a variety of ways out of

686
00:29:40,040 --> 00:29:36,150
it well I don't really know I mean you

687
00:29:41,870 --> 00:29:40,050
can't take the take take the abduction

688
00:29:43,490 --> 00:29:41,880
phenomenon yeah take the abduction

689
00:29:45,170 --> 00:29:43,500
phenomena out of it I get this that's

690
00:29:46,670 --> 00:29:45,180
like when I listen to I don't know your

691
00:29:47,180 --> 00:29:46,680
opinion on but when I listen to Budd

692
00:29:51,260 --> 00:29:47,190
Hopkins

693
00:29:55,880 --> 00:29:51,270
in some of again tremendous both you and

694
00:29:59,870 --> 00:29:55,890
he I don't think we can adequately thank

695
00:30:02,330 --> 00:29:59,880
you enough for doing this work hard work

696
00:30:04,640 --> 00:30:02,340
with you know sure you sold some books

697
00:30:06,830 --> 00:30:04,650
and maybe you stood up there on the

698
00:30:09,140 --> 00:30:06,840
podium but I think you survived a lot

699
00:30:12,380 --> 00:30:09,150
more arrows both in the front and the

700
00:30:14,300 --> 00:30:12,390
back then anyone will ever appreciate

701
00:30:16,520 --> 00:30:14,310
but back to my point when I see Budd

702
00:30:19,220 --> 00:30:16,530
Hopkins I say there's a humanist there's

703
00:30:21,740 --> 00:30:19,230
a guy who's kind of dedicated to kind of

704
00:30:23,720 --> 00:30:21,750
an atheistic kind of view of things I'm

705
00:30:27,500 --> 00:30:23,730
not a religious person and I'm certainly

706
00:30:29,600 --> 00:30:27,510
not pushing any kind of religion or any

707
00:30:31,490 --> 00:30:29,610
kind of specific spiritual tradition I

708
00:30:34,430 --> 00:30:31,500
just come at it from the data and I say

709
00:30:37,040 --> 00:30:34,440
there's a reality to these two these

710
00:30:38,810 --> 00:30:37,050
unity consciousness experiences that

711
00:30:41,360 --> 00:30:38,820
people have had throughout time reported

712
00:30:42,800 --> 00:30:41,370
throughout time in every culture and in

713
00:30:44,780 --> 00:30:42,810
every way we can measure it there seems

714
00:30:47,300 --> 00:30:44,790
to be a reality to it but I get the

715
00:30:49,490 --> 00:30:47,310
sense that you know Budd Hopkins and

716
00:30:52,010 --> 00:30:49,500
people from that humanist side just are

717
00:30:53,570 --> 00:30:52,020
really not either have it looked at the

718
00:30:55,780 --> 00:30:53,580
data of what this kind of a willful

719
00:30:58,100 --> 00:30:55,790
ignorance kind of thing or are just

720
00:31:00,650 --> 00:30:58,110
really closed into a worldview that

721
00:31:02,180 --> 00:31:00,660
doesn't really allow for that and I

722
00:31:08,060 --> 00:31:02,190
guess I just have to ask where you're

723
00:31:10,730 --> 00:31:08,070
coming from right well I'm not coming

724
00:31:12,830 --> 00:31:10,740
from it's hard to say you know you've

725
00:31:13,220 --> 00:31:12,840
asked me a personal question that has

726
00:31:16,010 --> 00:31:13,230
nothing

727
00:31:18,409 --> 00:31:16,020
to do with the abduction phenomenon I do

728
00:31:20,720 --> 00:31:18,419
why do you think that because all I know

729
00:31:23,030 --> 00:31:20,730
is when I started doing abduction

730
00:31:24,830 --> 00:31:23,040
research I really didn't know what I was

731
00:31:26,810 --> 00:31:24,840
doing and I didn't know what I was going

732
00:31:29,600 --> 00:31:26,820
to hear and if this turned out to be a

733
00:31:30,830 --> 00:31:29,610
spiritually enlightening phenomenon that

734
00:31:33,440 --> 00:31:30,840
would have been fine

735
00:31:35,750 --> 00:31:33,450
that would that's okay with me that's

736
00:31:37,340 --> 00:31:35,760
great wonderful I'd like to be

737
00:31:38,150 --> 00:31:37,350
spiritually enlightened that would be

738
00:31:42,110 --> 00:31:38,160
terrific

739
00:31:45,380 --> 00:31:42,120
but I just never hear this it's just not

740
00:31:48,380 --> 00:31:45,390
part of this phenomenon I just it's I

741
00:31:51,380 --> 00:31:48,390
didn't have any dog in the fight so Dez

742
00:31:54,020 --> 00:31:51,390
Clinton used to say when and when I

743
00:31:57,530 --> 00:31:54,030
first began this I was a neophyte I

744
00:31:58,880 --> 00:31:57,540
didn't know what to expect I and it

745
00:32:00,409 --> 00:31:58,890
wasn't just a few years before what I

746
00:32:02,450 --> 00:32:00,419
thought the abduction phenomenon was

747
00:32:07,460 --> 00:32:02,460
really basically a psychologically

748
00:32:09,710 --> 00:32:07,470
induced phenomenon and so but you know

749
00:32:12,860 --> 00:32:09,720
you're asking me to answer a question

750
00:32:15,799 --> 00:32:12,870
that does not relate to my research if

751
00:32:19,010 --> 00:32:15,809
people were having spiritual experiences

752
00:32:21,409 --> 00:32:19,020
from this fine I have to I have to push

753
00:32:24,020 --> 00:32:21,419
back not I think it's relevant in the

754
00:32:25,580 --> 00:32:24,030
sense that we're talking about these two

755
00:32:27,500 --> 00:32:25,590
camps and one camp says there's the

756
00:32:29,659 --> 00:32:27,510
spiritually transformative experiences I

757
00:32:33,350 --> 00:32:29,669
think it's relevant to say has the

758
00:32:35,299 --> 00:32:33,360
evidence that you've amassed through not

759
00:32:38,450 --> 00:32:35,309
only your abduction research but your

760
00:32:41,090 --> 00:32:38,460
overall life experience convinced you in

761
00:32:43,100 --> 00:32:41,100
the reality of spiritual experiences

762
00:32:44,780 --> 00:32:43,110
that seems to me to be extremely

763
00:32:47,740 --> 00:32:44,790
relevant because it we all have our

764
00:32:50,360 --> 00:32:47,750
worldview I just shared with you why I'm

765
00:32:52,940 --> 00:32:50,370
convinced of the reality of that but

766
00:32:55,520 --> 00:32:52,950
then I am going to look at things in

767
00:32:58,039 --> 00:32:55,530
that way and and can be expected to but

768
00:32:59,570 --> 00:32:58,049
you can kind of push me away from my

769
00:33:02,210 --> 00:32:59,580
thing just show me the evidence that

770
00:33:04,039 --> 00:33:02,220
that isn't true so all right I think

771
00:33:05,810 --> 00:33:04,049
it's important because I think if we're

772
00:33:07,520 --> 00:33:05,820
talking about are these spiritually

773
00:33:08,480 --> 00:33:07,530
transformative experiences if someone's

774
00:33:10,070 --> 00:33:08,490
coming out and said well I don't think

775
00:33:11,810 --> 00:33:10,080
there's any such thing as a spiritually

776
00:33:13,010 --> 00:33:11,820
transformative experience I don't think

777
00:33:15,350 --> 00:33:13,020
those things happen

778
00:33:17,390 --> 00:33:15,360
I think that's relevant it's not so much

779
00:33:19,730 --> 00:33:17,400
relevant for me other people have had

780
00:33:22,280 --> 00:33:19,740
spiritually transformative experiences

781
00:33:24,670 --> 00:33:22,290
and that's you know that's I can agree

782
00:33:26,980 --> 00:33:24,680
with that that's fine in other words

783
00:33:29,260 --> 00:33:26,990
you're not gonna pin me down here

784
00:33:31,870 --> 00:33:29,270
because the way I look at it is through

785
00:33:34,660 --> 00:33:31,880
a social scientists eyes that is to say

786
00:33:38,560 --> 00:33:34,670
I'm trying to find out exactly what

787
00:33:40,210 --> 00:33:38,570
happens what's happening and why so far

788
00:33:42,580 --> 00:33:40,220
people have not told me about

789
00:33:44,410 --> 00:33:42,590
spiritually transformative experiences

790
00:33:46,780 --> 00:33:44,420
given the fact that they've been

791
00:33:48,940 --> 00:33:46,790
abducted since they were children over

792
00:33:51,100 --> 00:33:48,950
and over and over again

793
00:33:54,430 --> 00:33:51,110
well I think you make a strong point

794
00:33:57,160 --> 00:33:54,440
with that and I also think let me add

795
00:34:01,590 --> 00:33:57,170
that I also think you make a very strong

796
00:34:05,140 --> 00:34:01,600
point when you talk about the inherent

797
00:34:07,750 --> 00:34:05,150
deceptiveness of the phenomenon and I

798
00:34:10,750 --> 00:34:07,760
think we have to appreciate that because

799
00:34:13,630 --> 00:34:10,760
I'll tell you my position I see a lot of

800
00:34:15,070 --> 00:34:13,640
disconnect between the idea that these

801
00:34:19,510 --> 00:34:15,080
are spiritually transformative

802
00:34:21,430 --> 00:34:19,520
experiences with the the experiences

803
00:34:23,800 --> 00:34:21,440
that that are hard you know more in the

804
00:34:25,930 --> 00:34:23,810
realm of what we generally associate

805
00:34:28,120 --> 00:34:25,940
that with you know if somebody having a

806
00:34:29,889 --> 00:34:28,130
near-death experience or some kind of

807
00:34:31,899 --> 00:34:29,899
spiritual awakening that have been

808
00:34:33,940 --> 00:34:31,909
reported a long time I don't see the

809
00:34:35,800 --> 00:34:33,950
parallels that a lot of other people see

810
00:34:39,070 --> 00:34:35,810
and when one of the things that I focus

811
00:34:43,230 --> 00:34:39,080
on is this idea of deception you really

812
00:34:46,060 --> 00:34:43,240
don't find that in the the spiritual

813
00:34:48,210 --> 00:34:46,070
literature or the unity consciousness

814
00:34:51,490 --> 00:34:48,220
literature there isn't someone who's

815
00:34:54,520 --> 00:34:51,500
deceiving you in that way that is

816
00:34:56,050 --> 00:34:54,530
clearly part of the alien abduction

817
00:34:58,270 --> 00:34:56,060
phenomenon now that might not be

818
00:34:59,740 --> 00:34:58,280
something that you're interested in but

819
00:35:02,380 --> 00:34:59,750
I do want to make that point because I

820
00:35:04,870 --> 00:35:02,390
think that that clearly comes out of

821
00:35:07,300 --> 00:35:04,880
this is that there's this mine altering

822
00:35:09,280 --> 00:35:07,310
aspect of it but there's also this

823
00:35:15,010 --> 00:35:09,290
deceptive aspect of it that you talk

824
00:35:16,780 --> 00:35:15,020
about yes there there is that and we're

825
00:35:19,030 --> 00:35:16,790
talking about a few different things

826
00:35:22,980 --> 00:35:19,040
here in a way we're talking about how

827
00:35:25,090 --> 00:35:22,990
people take the information away from

828
00:35:25,600 --> 00:35:25,100
their abduction events and what they do

829
00:35:29,020 --> 00:35:25,610
with it

830
00:35:30,670 --> 00:35:29,030
and that has to do oftentimes with

831
00:35:34,750 --> 00:35:30,680
hypnosis and with the quality of

832
00:35:36,550 --> 00:35:34,760
hypnosis and with the lack of concern

833
00:35:41,740 --> 00:35:36,560
for confabulation

834
00:35:44,800 --> 00:35:41,750
and and and in that will obviously

835
00:35:48,100 --> 00:35:44,810
affect people if people find comfort in

836
00:35:51,790 --> 00:35:48,110
that fine I'm not about to disabuse

837
00:35:54,280 --> 00:35:51,800
people who by telling him oh you're

838
00:35:58,330 --> 00:35:54,290
wrong like that this is the personal

839
00:36:00,610 --> 00:35:58,340
phenomenon and it happens to people and

840
00:36:03,370 --> 00:36:00,620
it's intergenerational you know it's it

841
00:36:06,070 --> 00:36:03,380
goes through the generations and it's

842
00:36:09,640 --> 00:36:06,080
it's it's not like what other people

843
00:36:13,300 --> 00:36:09,650
have seen in this it to me it's it's not

844
00:36:16,540 --> 00:36:13,310
unusual for people to ascribe all sorts

845
00:36:19,120 --> 00:36:16,550
of different meanings to this who don't

846
00:36:20,530 --> 00:36:19,130
fully understand what exactly is

847
00:36:22,990 --> 00:36:20,540
happening that's the only way I can

848
00:36:24,490 --> 00:36:23,000
describe it now I know that there are

849
00:36:28,470 --> 00:36:24,500
people who have done even more hypnosis

850
00:36:30,610 --> 00:36:28,480
sessions with me and they still find a

851
00:36:33,430 --> 00:36:30,620
spiritually enlightening events and all

852
00:36:35,020 --> 00:36:33,440
the rest that stuff with abductors but

853
00:36:38,260 --> 00:36:35,030
they came from a different position than

854
00:36:39,940 --> 00:36:38,270
I did they didn't come from it a more

855
00:36:42,760 --> 00:36:39,950
objective position they oftentimes came

856
00:36:45,580 --> 00:36:42,770
from the New Age world or have new-age

857
00:36:47,050 --> 00:36:45,590
proclivities which is fine if people

858
00:36:49,420 --> 00:36:47,060
want that if they want to cope with the

859
00:36:52,240 --> 00:36:49,430
phenomenon by by dealing with that

860
00:36:54,220 --> 00:36:52,250
that's fine my world is the world of

861
00:36:57,520 --> 00:36:54,230
finding out exactly what's happening and

862
00:36:58,780 --> 00:36:57,530
why that's my world if I were to find

863
00:37:00,490 --> 00:36:58,790
that this is happening because they're

864
00:37:04,570 --> 00:37:00,500
spiritually enlightening people that's

865
00:37:07,480 --> 00:37:04,580
fine too I have not found that period

866
00:37:09,100 --> 00:37:07,490
well dr. Jacobs I appreciate this time

867
00:37:11,950 --> 00:37:09,110
we spent over an hour and a half on the

868
00:37:14,080 --> 00:37:11,960
phone tell folks a little bit more about

869
00:37:16,690 --> 00:37:14,090
these upcoming books when they can

870
00:37:19,450 --> 00:37:16,700
expect to see them in as much detail as

871
00:37:21,490 --> 00:37:19,460
you care to share on when what's going

872
00:37:25,990 --> 00:37:21,500
to be in them the first problem is

873
00:37:27,340 --> 00:37:26,000
getting a publisher i prospectus that I

874
00:37:29,620 --> 00:37:27,350
have for this book that I'm writing now

875
00:37:32,230 --> 00:37:29,630
several years ago was rejected by my

876
00:37:34,000 --> 00:37:32,240
publisher for Simon & Schuster so I've

877
00:37:35,740 --> 00:37:34,010
got a new perspective so I'm about just

878
00:37:37,410 --> 00:37:35,750
about to write as I finish this whole

879
00:37:39,610 --> 00:37:37,420
damn manuscript that I've been writing

880
00:37:43,570 --> 00:37:39,620
usually peer person doesn't write a

881
00:37:46,019 --> 00:37:43,580
manuscript until it's sold yeah until

882
00:37:49,019 --> 00:37:46,029
you got right it sold sold but

883
00:37:50,639 --> 00:37:49,029
I figured that my that this would be a

884
00:37:52,559 --> 00:37:50,649
better way for me to go right now

885
00:37:55,349 --> 00:37:52,569
because then I'm in a position to

886
00:37:57,899 --> 00:37:55,359
publish it in different ways I do have

887
00:37:59,399 --> 00:37:57,909
other publishers who are another

888
00:38:03,599 --> 00:37:59,409
publisher basically it was waiting in

889
00:38:05,849 --> 00:38:03,609
line for it but we'll see I hope within

890
00:38:07,799 --> 00:38:05,859
this next year it will be published the

891
00:38:10,439 --> 00:38:07,809
book on methodology which is virtually

892
00:38:14,489 --> 00:38:10,449
done I figured that the audience for it

893
00:38:18,359 --> 00:38:14,499
is in the tens and tens so I'll probably

894
00:38:20,939 --> 00:38:18,369
have to self publish that book and the

895
00:38:25,559 --> 00:38:20,949
third book which will be my true the

896
00:38:27,749 --> 00:38:25,569
truly crazy book is is still in the back

897
00:38:30,959 --> 00:38:27,759
of my brain and so that's gonna be a few

898
00:38:32,519 --> 00:38:30,969
years down the line great great well

899
00:38:35,489 --> 00:38:32,529
we'll look for all that in the meantime

900
00:38:39,179 --> 00:38:35,499
folks can keep up to date on your work

901
00:38:41,629 --> 00:38:39,189
through your website it escapes me right

902
00:38:44,759 --> 00:38:41,639
now can you give that to me

903
00:38:47,099 --> 00:38:44,769
WWWE UFO abduction calm

904
00:38:50,369 --> 00:38:47,109
I haven't diddled with it in a long time

905
00:38:52,649 --> 00:38:50,379
I haven't added anything to it and so

906
00:38:54,389 --> 00:38:52,659
I've got to revamp it and redo it and

907
00:38:56,549 --> 00:38:54,399
put some more stuff on it but there's

908
00:38:58,139 --> 00:38:56,559
still quite a lot of information on it I

909
00:39:01,109 --> 00:38:58,149
must say well I appreciate you joining

910
00:39:03,359 --> 00:39:01,119
me I know you're a busy guy I do hope

911
00:39:05,759 --> 00:39:03,369
that you leave open the possibility of

912
00:39:07,079 --> 00:39:05,769
maybe collaborating in a way that

913
00:39:09,539 --> 00:39:07,089
doesn't take a lot of your time but

914
00:39:12,179 --> 00:39:09,549
maybe some kind of review of some

915
00:39:13,829 --> 00:39:12,189
protocols I'd love to try and put a

916
00:39:17,129 --> 00:39:13,839
little bit of time and a little bit of

917
00:39:19,319 --> 00:39:17,139
money towards doing some honest research

918
00:39:21,749 --> 00:39:19,329
objective research and see where we come

919
00:39:23,039 --> 00:39:21,759
up but I just hope you'll stay open to

920
00:39:25,499 --> 00:39:23,049
that and I'll try and stay in touch and

921
00:39:28,679 --> 00:39:25,509
see what we can come up with I've been

922
00:39:30,209 --> 00:39:28,689
there done that myself alright this is

923
00:39:32,009 --> 00:39:30,219
what I call a negative cash flow

924
00:39:33,419 --> 00:39:32,019
business some honey just flows out on my

925
00:39:35,819 --> 00:39:33,429
bank account every time somebody walks

926
00:39:38,219 --> 00:39:35,829
into my home office I hear you that's

927
00:39:40,889 --> 00:39:38,229
the name of the game been great talking

928
00:39:45,979 --> 00:39:40,899
to you thanks again talk to you later

929
00:39:48,989 --> 00:39:45,989
Alex okay David I'm here everything good

930
00:39:50,819 --> 00:39:48,999
everything sounds good yeah great great

931
00:39:54,239 --> 00:39:50,829
stuff I think we're sorry I couldn't pin

932
00:39:55,430 --> 00:39:54,249
me down on this stuff I it's just not in

933
00:39:58,310 --> 00:39:55,440
my world I'm at my

934
00:40:00,680 --> 00:39:58,320
this is as I said is just the facts

935
00:40:02,990 --> 00:40:00,690
ma'am and well no I think I think you

936
00:40:05,180 --> 00:40:03,000
handled it I think you handled it well I

937
00:40:06,800 --> 00:40:05,190
think you handled it fine again I come

938
00:40:09,050 --> 00:40:06,810
at it that's it those are just the facts

939
00:40:10,100 --> 00:40:09,060
my consciousness survives death anyone

940
00:40:11,840 --> 00:40:10,110
who doesn't believe that just hasn't

941
00:40:13,070 --> 00:40:11,850
looked at the data now what that means

942
00:40:15,380 --> 00:40:13,080
in terms of whether you believe in God

943
00:40:17,750 --> 00:40:15,390
and all that you can have your own place

944
00:40:20,120 --> 00:40:17,760
but conscious and surviving death is

945
00:40:22,030 --> 00:40:20,130
just well it's it's just let's let's put

946
00:40:25,070 --> 00:40:22,040
it this way I hope you're right

947
00:40:27,320 --> 00:40:25,080
I'm 71 years old now and I sure hope

948
00:40:29,690 --> 00:40:27,330
you're right well it's it's it's out

949
00:40:32,120 --> 00:40:29,700
there all the data but hey it's great I

950
00:40:35,690 --> 00:40:32,130
think we can do go with it as is right

951
00:40:37,460 --> 00:40:35,700
no problems with any of that no no I I

952
00:40:39,620 --> 00:40:37,470
didn't say too many things that were

953
00:40:43,520 --> 00:40:39,630
ridiculously and ridiculous and stupid

954
00:40:47,570 --> 00:40:43,530
no on the contrary I think it's great

955
00:40:48,670 --> 00:40:47,580
and again I appreciate it okay Alex it's

956
00:40:51,860 --> 00:40:48,680
all yours

957
00:40:53,990 --> 00:40:51,870
well I want to again thank dr. David

958
00:40:56,630 --> 00:40:54,000
Jacobs for spending the time joining me

959
00:40:59,600 --> 00:40:56,640
on skeptic oh and trying to wrestle some

960
00:41:01,610 --> 00:40:59,610
of these issues to the ground as you

961
00:41:04,010 --> 00:41:01,620
heard there at the end I'm really

962
00:41:07,220 --> 00:41:04,020
pushing towards some kind of further

963
00:41:09,280 --> 00:41:07,230
research to kind of explore that now I

964
00:41:12,170 --> 00:41:09,290
don't know if that's going to happen

965
00:41:15,350 --> 00:41:12,180
particularly since we've kind of

966
00:41:18,140 --> 00:41:15,360
uncovered some things about dr. Jacobs

967
00:41:21,530 --> 00:41:18,150
since this interview that I think might

968
00:41:23,900 --> 00:41:21,540
make it hard to engage him further and

969
00:41:26,990 --> 00:41:23,910
in particular I'm referring to a

970
00:41:29,330 --> 00:41:27,000
response that we got from will Buchi

971
00:41:31,490 --> 00:41:29,340
well I hope I didn't totally butcher

972
00:41:35,060 --> 00:41:31,500
your name there but will is from the

973
00:41:37,820 --> 00:41:35,070
John eMac Institute an organization that

974
00:41:40,820 --> 00:41:37,830
has tried to preserve and further extend

975
00:41:44,870 --> 00:41:40,830
the work of John eMac now the reason

976
00:41:47,510 --> 00:41:44,880
that Will's comment is important is let

977
00:41:49,790 --> 00:41:47,520
me go back and read for you again the

978
00:41:51,980 --> 00:41:49,800
quote from David Jacobs where he said

979
00:41:54,170 --> 00:41:51,990
this about John Mack I think John Mack

980
00:41:57,500 --> 00:41:54,180
is just dead wrong in his analysis of

981
00:41:59,780 --> 00:41:57,510
this in fact he tried and tried to ram

982
00:42:02,390 --> 00:41:59,790
the abduction phenomena into his

983
00:42:04,700 --> 00:42:02,400
preconceived ideas about consciousness

984
00:42:07,160 --> 00:42:04,710
and never could that's a pretty bold

985
00:42:08,650 --> 00:42:07,170
statement most people don't realize that

986
00:42:10,359 --> 00:42:08,660
he gave up

987
00:42:13,029 --> 00:42:10,369
that's a factual statement that I think

988
00:42:16,599 --> 00:42:13,039
is proven to be incorrect in what we've

989
00:42:19,359 --> 00:42:16,609
discovered again Jacobs continues he

990
00:42:20,049 --> 00:42:19,369
said that's it I don't want to do it

991
00:42:22,569 --> 00:42:20,059
anymore

992
00:42:25,329 --> 00:42:22,579
because he could never get it to conform

993
00:42:27,130 --> 00:42:25,339
to his ideas two years before he died he

994
00:42:29,770 --> 00:42:27,140
stopped doing abduction research

995
00:42:32,049 --> 00:42:29,780
altogether again a factual statement

996
00:42:33,819 --> 00:42:32,059
that I think is incorrect he closed his

997
00:42:36,099 --> 00:42:33,829
peer group at Harvard and told Budd

998
00:42:38,829 --> 00:42:36,109
Hopkins that maybe he'd been a little

999
00:42:41,380 --> 00:42:38,839
bit too gullible he could never fit it

1000
00:42:43,059 --> 00:42:41,390
into what he wanted to be now we did

1001
00:42:45,940 --> 00:42:43,069
some digging and I want to read for you

1002
00:42:48,069 --> 00:42:45,950
part of the reply from will of the John

1003
00:42:51,160 --> 00:42:48,079
Mac Institute here's part of what he

1004
00:42:53,980 --> 00:42:51,170
said to your inquiry Jacobs repeated

1005
00:42:57,279 --> 00:42:53,990
claim that dr. Mac gave up his interest

1006
00:42:59,829 --> 00:42:57,289
in alien counters is simply false list

1007
00:43:02,109 --> 00:42:59,839
some facts first he points out that even

1008
00:43:04,510 --> 00:43:02,119
though dr. Mac had wrapped up his alien

1009
00:43:06,880 --> 00:43:04,520
abduction research a few years before

1010
00:43:09,069 --> 00:43:06,890
his death he continued to speak and

1011
00:43:11,829 --> 00:43:09,079
write on the subject as well as consult

1012
00:43:14,859 --> 00:43:11,839
with experiencers who saw him up until

1013
00:43:17,470 --> 00:43:14,869
his death in 2004 this fact is also

1014
00:43:20,109 --> 00:43:17,480
confirmed by a Vanity Fair article that

1015
00:43:22,510 --> 00:43:20,119
places Mac right in the center of one of

1016
00:43:24,789 --> 00:43:22,520
the support groups just a month or two

1017
00:43:27,130 --> 00:43:24,799
before his death so I think that part's

1018
00:43:29,230 --> 00:43:27,140
pretty well-established then he goes on

1019
00:43:31,779 --> 00:43:29,240
to explain why he wrapped up his

1020
00:43:34,299 --> 00:43:31,789
research and he gives several factors

1021
00:43:36,370 --> 00:43:34,309
including the fact that he thought he

1022
00:43:37,900 --> 00:43:36,380
really had amassed enough at that point

1023
00:43:39,549 --> 00:43:37,910
and published several books and I think

1024
00:43:42,279 --> 00:43:39,559
like a lot of people you know when

1025
00:43:44,349 --> 00:43:42,289
you've been in a topic for a while you

1026
00:43:46,450 --> 00:43:44,359
can understand someone reaching a point

1027
00:43:48,760 --> 00:43:46,460
and say okay that's it I've done it I

1028
00:43:51,069 --> 00:43:48,770
don't really have more to say actually a

1029
00:43:53,620 --> 00:43:51,079
point that David Jacobs is pretty close

1030
00:43:56,019 --> 00:43:53,630
to reaching himself so I think that's

1031
00:43:57,940 --> 00:43:56,029
totally understandable a couple of other

1032
00:44:00,519 --> 00:43:57,950
reasons that he mentions are just more

1033
00:44:03,190 --> 00:44:00,529
human reasons the guy was 75 years old

1034
00:44:06,130 --> 00:44:03,200
when he stopped actively doing sessions

1035
00:44:08,620 --> 00:44:06,140
with alien of abductees and will Boucher

1036
00:44:10,240 --> 00:44:08,630
gives a couple of other reasons you can

1037
00:44:12,519 --> 00:44:10,250
read all those they're published on The

1038
00:44:14,890 --> 00:44:12,529
Skeptical forum we'll provide a link to

1039
00:44:19,210 --> 00:44:14,900
that but I thought I'd add this final

1040
00:44:21,940 --> 00:44:19,220
summary statement simply said Jacobs

1041
00:44:24,490 --> 00:44:21,950
claimed that Mac gave up is

1042
00:44:27,310 --> 00:44:24,500
false and if I were to speak freely I

1043
00:44:30,940 --> 00:44:27,320
feel it's a claim that feeds into Jacobs

1044
00:44:33,280 --> 00:44:30,950
narcissism Jacobs opinion that he alone

1045
00:44:37,390 --> 00:44:33,290
has the discernment to learn the truth

1046
00:44:40,660 --> 00:44:37,400
about alien encounters now I've asked

1047
00:44:43,000 --> 00:44:40,670
dr. Jacobs to respond to this I have yet

1048
00:44:45,359 --> 00:44:43,010
to hear from dr. Jacobs I don't know if

1049
00:44:47,109 --> 00:44:45,369
I will hear from dr. Jacobs if I do

1050
00:44:49,000 --> 00:44:47,119
you'll hear about it

1051
00:44:51,460 --> 00:44:49,010
so moving on and wrapping up this

1052
00:44:53,980 --> 00:44:51,470
interview with dr. Jacobs I would tee up

1053
00:44:55,750 --> 00:44:53,990
one question from this second part of

1054
00:44:58,240 --> 00:44:55,760
the interview and that is a question

1055
00:45:00,339 --> 00:44:58,250
that we've asked over and over again in

1056
00:45:03,490 --> 00:45:00,349
different ways but it's particularly

1057
00:45:06,270 --> 00:45:03,500
poignant here and it is does worldview

1058
00:45:09,640 --> 00:45:06,280
matter if you're a social scientist

1059
00:45:12,460 --> 00:45:09,650
humanist code speak for atheist and you

1060
00:45:16,109 --> 00:45:12,470
don't really believe that people have

1061
00:45:19,540 --> 00:45:16,119
these experiences extended conscious

1062
00:45:22,839 --> 00:45:19,550
experiences spiritual experiences if you

1063
00:45:24,819 --> 00:45:22,849
really believe deep down that that stuff

1064
00:45:26,620 --> 00:45:24,829
doesn't really happen because that's how

1065
00:45:29,349 --> 00:45:26,630
you've been trained and that's the party

1066
00:45:32,470 --> 00:45:29,359
line that you have to toe does that

1067
00:45:35,290 --> 00:45:32,480
worldview affect your research affect

1068
00:45:38,079 --> 00:45:35,300
your science now of course we can never

1069
00:45:40,809 --> 00:45:38,089
fully answer that question we never know

1070
00:45:42,790 --> 00:45:40,819
because you bring what you have to the

1071
00:45:45,460 --> 00:45:42,800
situation and we can't really create a

1072
00:45:47,770 --> 00:45:45,470
hypothetical you that might come to a

1073
00:45:50,640 --> 00:45:47,780
situation with a different worldview but

1074
00:45:53,020 --> 00:45:50,650
my question for you is do you think

1075
00:45:56,700 --> 00:45:53,030
based on everything we know at this

1076
00:45:59,670 --> 00:45:56,710
point that dr. Jacobs worldview has

1077
00:46:03,400 --> 00:45:59,680
influenced his view about the

1078
00:46:06,099 --> 00:46:03,410
possibility that some of these alien

1079
00:46:08,950 --> 00:46:06,109
encounters have these spiritually

1080
00:46:10,809 --> 00:46:08,960
transformative elements to them now I'm

1081
00:46:13,750 --> 00:46:10,819
reluctant to go to the next part of that

1082
00:46:15,760 --> 00:46:13,760
question and ask what does that mean in

1083
00:46:18,370 --> 00:46:15,770
particular what does it mean in the

1084
00:46:21,280 --> 00:46:18,380
context how those alien spiritual

1085
00:46:23,920 --> 00:46:21,290
experiences compared to other spiritual

1086
00:46:26,170 --> 00:46:23,930
experiences moreover whether those

1087
00:46:28,510 --> 00:46:26,180
experiences are genuine spiritual

1088
00:46:31,420 --> 00:46:28,520
experiences or whether some of them are

1089
00:46:35,579 --> 00:46:31,430
and some of them aren't as we've said

1090
00:46:37,950 --> 00:46:35,589
all along this is a very thorny mess

1091
00:46:40,920 --> 00:46:37,960
of an issue to pull apart it's really

1092
00:46:44,309 --> 00:46:40,930
complicated unlike some of the stuck on

1093
00:46:46,920 --> 00:46:44,319
stupid debates we get into this is one

1094
00:46:51,089 --> 00:46:46,930
that has meat in substance the further

1095
00:46:53,370 --> 00:46:51,099
we go in the more mysteries we find but

1096
00:46:56,069 --> 00:46:53,380
then again that's the way I like it

1097
00:46:59,489 --> 00:46:56,079
that's when I feel like I'm growing

1098
00:47:01,650 --> 00:46:59,499
learning or having the opportunity to so

1099
00:47:03,599 --> 00:47:01,660
if you have some thoughts on that

1100
00:47:05,759 --> 00:47:03,609
question or I guess any of those

1101
00:47:08,609 --> 00:47:05,769
questions I kind of mixed in there

1102
00:47:10,890 --> 00:47:08,619
please join me for a discussion on the

1103
00:47:13,469 --> 00:47:10,900
skeptical forum or in the comment

1104
00:47:15,359 --> 00:47:13,479
section of the new sceptical website I

1105
00:47:17,099 --> 00:47:15,369
should mention I did publish the new

1106
00:47:18,930 --> 00:47:17,109
website so if you have any thoughts on

1107
00:47:21,239 --> 00:47:18,940
that or in particular if you spot any

1108
00:47:23,519 --> 00:47:21,249
problems with that please drop me a note

1109
00:47:24,660 --> 00:47:23,529
and let me know of course the way to

1110
00:47:27,870 --> 00:47:24,670
connect with me

1111
00:47:32,069 --> 00:47:27,880
is through the skeptic Oh website @sk EP

1112
00:47:33,959 --> 00:47:32,079
tik Oh calm as mentioned you can jump on

1113
00:47:36,450 --> 00:47:33,969
over the forum which is the best place

1114
00:47:38,339 --> 00:47:36,460
to really get a response out of me if

1115
00:47:40,859 --> 00:47:38,349
you're looking for that or some thoughts

1116
00:47:42,359 --> 00:47:40,869
from me but you can also leave a comment

1117
00:47:44,219 --> 00:47:42,369
right there on the skeptical web site

1118
00:47:46,859 --> 00:47:44,229
you can of course connect with me on

1119
00:47:48,809 --> 00:47:46,869
Facebook or drop me an email and I try

1120
00:47:51,029 --> 00:47:48,819
and get back to those as soon as I can

1121
00:47:54,269 --> 00:47:51,039
so I have one more show that I want to

1122
00:47:56,759 --> 00:47:54,279
do on this topic I think you'll find it

1123
00:47:59,279 --> 00:47:56,769
very interesting I also have a couple of

1124
00:48:01,529 --> 00:47:59,289
other shows on different topics in the

1125
00:48:03,390 --> 00:48:01,539
hopper I'm not exactly sure what order

1126
00:48:05,519 --> 00:48:03,400
they're going to come out in but we'll

1127
00:48:07,680 --> 00:48:05,529
just kind of play that by ear it is

1128
00:48:10,289 --> 00:48:07,690
Thanksgiving here in the United States

1129
00:48:12,599 --> 00:48:10,299
and I need to get busy on cornbread and

1130
00:48:15,509 --> 00:48:12,609
Turkey which is my job in the cooking

1131
00:48:18,150 --> 00:48:15,519
order here so I better wrap this up and